Subscribe to this topicForums > General Investment Discussion > Topic: OP/Ed and Commentary re; WSE - World Stock Exchange
| Aug 7th 2008, 19:42 Bogart Beck |
OP/Ed and Commentary re; WSE - World Stock Exchange
Edited by author Aug 7th 2008, 20:13 |
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This Forum is RESERVED for the posting of COMMENTARY, OPINIONS and EDITORIALS related to the WORLD STOCK EXCHANGE (WSE) operated in Second Life(tm) by the Public Figure (SL: Lukeconnell Vandeverre). As MODERATOR, here's a word of caution regarding our posting policy here. SL Capital Exchange will NOT tolerate any commentary that is libelous or a defamation of character. To that end, here's a brief legal description of the terms; What Are Defamation, Libel and Slander? Generally speaking, defamation is the issuance of a FALSE statement about another person, which causes that person to suffer harm. Slander involves the making of defamatory statements by a transitory (non-fixed) representation, usually an oral (spoken) representation. Libel involves the making of defamatory statements in a printed or fixed medium, such as a magazine or newspaper. What Defenses Are Available To People Accused of Defamation? The most important defense to an action for defamation is "truth", which is an absolute defense to an action for defamation. A defense recognized in most jurisdictions is "opinion". If the person makes a statement of opinion as opposed to fact, the statement may not support a cause of action for defamation. Whether a statement is viewed as an expression of fact or opinion can depend upon context - that is, whether or not the person making the statement would be perceived by the community as being in a position to know whether or not it is true. A defense similar to opinion is "fair comment on a matter of public interest". Public Figures Under the First Amendment of the United States Constitution, as set forth by the U.S. Supreme Court in the 1964 Case, New York Times v Sullivan, where a public figure attempts to bring an action for defamation, the public figure must prove an additional element: That the statement was made with "actual malice". In translation, that means that the person making the statement knew the statement to be false, or issued the statement with reckless disregard as to its truth. The concept of the "public figure" is broader than celebrities and politicians. A person can become an "involuntary public figure" as the result of publicity, even though that person did not want or invite the public attention. For example, people accused of high profile crimes may be unable to pursue actions for defamation even after their innocence is established, on the basis that the notoriety associated with the case and the accusations against them turned them into involuntary public figures. A person can also become a "limited public figure" by engaging in actions which generate publicity within a narrow area of interest. |
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| Aug 7th 2008, 20:19 Bogart Beck |
Re: OP/Ed and Commentary re; WSE - World Stock Exchange
Edited by author Aug 7th 2008, 20:20 |
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Archive - Consolidated from other Forums 08/07/2008; Yesterday, 04:25 Ivan Halfpint Latest Victim of WSE Con Machine Well its confirmed Luke has frozen my WSE account and denied me access to my funds because I postes some opinions he did not agree with on public forums. I went to ask for my lindens (or Luke dollars) which ever one back and he said he would not unless I deleted all my public comments regarding WSE. In other words he is going to steal my deposit - here is some of the conversation. You: Im trying to explain I dont want to use his WSE i just wanna cash my balance out and be gone [18:55] LukeConnell Vandeverre: I have already said and I'm not repeating what i've said. Fact remains, you breached the WSE TOS.According to the LL TOS once you transfer your fictional currency license to another user in SL, in this case Wse Huet you no longer control that license or the fictional currency balance assigned to it. WSE has also made the Terms of the service it provides very clear when you joined and has more than enough details on the site explaining and linking to the WSE. [18:56] Scott Nestler: Ivan did you agree to the new modified WSE TOS? [18:56] You: Basically Scott he is telling me I dont like him sealing my money complain to LL [18:56] jashua Alter is Offline [18:56] LukeConnell Vandeverre: Therefore if you breach the WSE TOS you are not welcome. This is our right as the service provider. [18:56] You: I didnt even know there was a modified TOS [18:56] LukeConnell Vandeverre: There you go again, making false allegations [18:57] You: Well you just told me i wont be llowed to access my account didnt you? [18:57] LukeConnell Vandeverre: I offered for you to retract your false allegations and slander however you refuse and therefore I refuse to allow you to use the WSE while you continue to slander it [18:57] Scott Nestler: Show Ivan where he violated the TOS of WSE, that he agreed to and the issue will be closed [18:57] You: therefore you are not giving me access to my money [18:58] LukeConnell Vandeverre: He knows already [18:58] LukeConnell Vandeverre: Slander is not permitted [18:58] Scott Nestler: Not the current TOS, but the TOS when he was active on the system [18:58] You: Scott he told me by posting comments he idnt like on public fourms it violates some TOS [18:59] You: I didnt realise there was a clause that if I posted somethng in pulic Luke didnt like he gets to keep the lindens in my acount [18:59] LukeConnell Vandeverre: I've made my position clear Ivan and I'm not going to allow you to try and make a scene and cause a disturbance. You either retract your statements and apologise your you are not welcome at Hope Capital or to use the WSE service [19:00] You: I didnt do anything wrong in my eyes [19:00] You: i allowed to post my opinions in public forums [19:00] Scott Nestler: Luke, if he violated the TOS, you have to be able to show him where in the TOS that was stated that he agreed to [19:00] LukeConnell Vandeverre: Well its my service, I say you did, thats the end of it [19:00] You: well then i guess thats it [19:00] Scott Nestler: If it's in the TOS, show him where [19:01] You: Id actually appreciate hearing about this clause [19:01] LukeConnell Vandeverre: Scott, its very clear in the terms of service, that he doesn't own what he claims to own. Its also very clear that the WSE can suspend or remove his account at anytime in our sole discreation Yesterday, 05:39 Cash Yiyuan Re: Latest Victim of WSE Con Machine Ivan it would be best for you to rectract your comments, therefore Luke should give you your Lindens back. I dont agree with what he is saying. Yesterday, 07:17 casper Trebuchet Re: Latest Victim of WSE Con Machine I don't think that this will work, Cash. I know from other cases where the simple fact that he thinks confidence is broken is reason enough to size your accounts. Even if you would retract your comments which isn't as easy as it looks like because of the character and nature of internet there is probably no way to regain his confidence. And if you think you do then you still must wait till 22nd September till you will be able to get back your money. As long as you didn’t violate any other TOS till then. The question about the moral aspects and business ethics of all this I better don't comment. What I can recommend to all new WSE investors as older victim as I’m ? Read his TOS very attentively, best with a attorney and then try to think about the worst case of all worst cases and what you will do if it happens. If you still can sleep well then ok, go for this thing but be damned sure not to invest any RL cent. Either leave it...there are better ways to waste your time and money. And what can I recommend to you, Ivan? You know best what is good for you. However, also know that Wiseguy Capra filed a www.ic3.gov case. Guess the story continues, luckily for all those which don’t know yet about the history record of this particular virtual stock exchange..Facebook makes the problem even more serious as you now can convert RL currency directly into this WIC. There are reasons why real stock exchanges are regulated…. Yesterday, 08:23 Sportsbets Writer Re: Latest Victim of WSE Con Machine Edited by author Yesterday, 08:25 Ivan , you have long time delete your posts ,until 22nd September, before that date it´s not possible to cash out anyway so senseless ask for your us$ now anyway. "You are unable to withdraw at this time. WSE Accounts created prior to the 1st of August 2008 will be unable to withdraw until Monday, 22nd September 2008" Like casper said, it´s hard to delete posts from big internet, but maybe luke has some links (im very aware he is following public forums)he could give you but then again, is the problem that some site admins ignore support tickets ,emails,IM´s to let delete some of your posts. I runned in "trouble" (even it was a little one) with luke myself not longtime ago. There was a article on slreports.net like "where the WSE is gone?" and i posted a link to the WSE facebook app which was in beta state and caused luke some "work" in deleting new members and it distubed the test phase little bit i think. edit: don´t care typos and enlis languagagge Yesterday, 08:41 Ivan Halfpint Re: Latest Victim of WSE Con Machine Well regardless I am not going to delete anything. Luke may be able to Bully others into doing what we wants with threats of confiscating their money - but this will not work with me. As far as I see things - SL is suposed to be a free medium and I should be allowed to express my views and opinions in public forums (forums which are in no way connected to the WSE). If Luke is that hard up that he has steal my lousy few thousand Lindens then that is up to him. He told me 'If I dont like it talk to LL'. I dont expect LL will be any help they just stood by and watched as he transfered everyones Lindens out of their WSE account and converted them to Luke dollars. The worry is not for me or my account. My main concern is for newcomers that will be duped by Luke's con game. Linden Labs continues to let him operate - people are still able to use an ATM o transfer money to Luke which he can and DOES confiscate at his discression. This should not be allowed to continue and from here on in I am going to do everything in my power to make sure I can reach as many people as possible to warn them about Lukes scam. The longer the WSE is around the more people at risk. As a side note looks like the old Hope Capital bonds are gone now - so he is raising more money by selling 'WSE' shares - which are really useless since he is the dictator over on hope island. He is trying to sell 10 million shares to raise $40,000 US dollars - no doubt to pay the people which will be flocking away in September when they are allowed to flee (that is the people who were lucky enough not to have their account frozen or delisted). The scarry thing is it looks like over 500k of these shares have been sold - congratulations proud buyers you are helping fund lukes latest escape from the grand Ponzi scheme. Anyway I'll be quiet now. I will in the near future be asking for some assistance from you folks. I am compiling a portfolio of complaints and stories of people who have been wronged or ripped off by Luke - hopefully united we will be better able to fight this frauster. Cheers Ivan Yesterday, 09:08 Armand Saintlouis Re: Latest Victim of WSE Con Machine So let me get this straight, behind all the mumbo jumbo of WSE TOS and Linden TOS what he is really saying is we gave our lindens to him and he does not have to give them back because Linden Labs says he doesn't. And certainly not if anyone has hurt his feelings by expressing an opinion that in light of closing the exchange ahead of the ban (possible prior knowledge?), keeping it closed for 7 months and taking all the linden for himself and issuing WSE iou's he is less than honest or somehow not as worthy of our trust as he may have been sometime in the distant past. I had to laugh, I'm sorry Ivan, to think this is coming from a man who managed to take a "fictional" currency and make it even more fictional. I guess I'm just glad all I left behind was about 55 cents worth of linden, not enough for him to be able to hold me hostage. Yesterday, 11:37 Huff Huldschinsky Re: Latest Victim of WSE Con Machine Hi Ivan, I'm glad to hear that you're not retracting whatever you said...you are indeed entitled to your opinion and our freedom of speech greatly depends on this basic premise...is honorable of you to stand your ground. Now I have to poke your wound though...you seem to be smart enough to know that the world wide zoo...err web, is full of everything and many different types of personalities that sometimes it takes a forum post to discover and other times it takes $$... in your case you paid to realize that Luke (I don't know the guy) is indeed the bad character that you claim that he is. The matter of fact in this case is that you posted some stuff in a forum, people saw it and you are taking responsibility for the posts. As for the above chat log, it is reprehensible that you posted it...it is a LL tos violation, Luke can say that the whole chat is fabricated, that he gave you the money back and whatever else (after all, Luke is the alleged bad guy right?)...so posting chat logs is useless and frankly I hate when people do so without the other party consent. I know you have strong opinions, but I mean no offense when I say that it doesn't go beyond that. Otherwise you would not "poke a lion with a short stick", by that I mean if you had the faintest idea that Luke was such a crook, how the heel would you put money into anything closely related to him or even waste your time posting stuff about the guy or his WSE without knowing how he would take it? "Anyway I'll be quiet now. I will in the near future be asking for some assistance from you folks. I am compiling a portfolio of complaints and stories of people who have been wronged or ripped off by Luke - hopefully united we will be better able to fight this frauster." These are to me, the best example of how you can help the newcomers... ask them to be quiet first, gather info, get their stuff together and be ready to submit proof of their allegations even in a court of law if necessary. I'm all for fighting fraud and educating people about constructive engagement. Huff Yesterday, 15:24 Guardian Market Re: Latest Victim of WSE Con Machine There's already an anti-WSE Facebook group. http://www.new.facebook.com/group.php?gid=9944494989 Yesterday, 16:03 Ironfist Hutchinson Re: Latest Victim of WSE Con Machine What a nonsence, If you do not want to provide service to a customer anymore because you have difference of opinion you return what you own them and kindly ask them to pack their bags and leave. For what it is worth Ivan, your stand is admireable. Not bending over to a powertrip through financial pressure. Poke a lion with a short stick you say Huff ? Sounds more like Ivan stepped on the tail of a rat. It is already bad enough these things are still possible, but having to say sorry and thank you for stealing my money goes beyond all reason. These self proclaimed moguls are getting bolder and bolder each day, more and more confident they become upto the point they even say to go screw your self if you ask a question they dont like. Being held hostage with the money you gave him in trust, Bah Yesterday, 16:13 iVentures Volitant Re: Latest Victim of WSE Con Machine It's another way of saying, "thanks for your money, now off you go." Ivan did the right thing. We need more strong willed investors out there. |
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| Aug 7th 2008, 20:32 Bogart Beck |
Re: OP/Ed and Commentary re; WSE - World Stock Exchange | |
Yesterday, 16:56 Arnaud Villota Re: Latest Victim of WSE Con Machine Edited by author Yesterday, 16:59 Actually I think we need a bucket load of us to create signs, and take turns to hang out on the Help Islands and Orientation Islands in SL (I'm sure Intlibber would welcome us on his orientation island! :) ) to warn new investors to stay away from the likes of Luke and WSE. LL can't touch Luke, because as Luke so "proudly" points out he is not violating LL TOS. Of course it doesn't matter that the WSE TOS seems to change randomly on a daily basis, but that doesn't matter. We are not bound by any other TOS except LL TOS. As long as the other TOS's do not violate LL TOS we are on our own because Luke can't be touched! (Sorry Ivan but "thems are the facts". It doesn't matter if you apologize, delete your posts, or give this bast*rd life time tickets to SL Wrestling, he doesn't care!!! And he won’t honor any commitment. He doesn’t have to! Others, like Sarah Nerd haven’t. figured this out. I love Sarah, but I really think she is being completely naive in this matter. Ivan, you have figured out that you're screwed. (No offense Cash and Scott, but don't throw the towel in so early! Ivan is screwed; your advice is not well timed nor legitimate!) I only hope other people will figure out the same thing before they invest more into this turkey. Therefore, since we are on our own, then we who have been screwed, ejected, sent into orbit by Luke and minions (I've had the pleasure of being all three! :) ) should band together and at least warn new people coming into SL that Luke and WSE is NOT their friend, nor their future!! Any of you who have Facebook exposure could maybe do a similar thing. Since I am not a member of Facebook I wouldn't know how that would work. The only way that I can think of doing that in SL is a group of us hang out 24/7 on all orientation and help islands carrying signs warning new people about this. If enough of us can band together to do this, then we can take shifts. I figure if there were 5 to 10 of us per shift, per island, we should be able to hit at least 80% of the newbie’s. What do the rest of you think? I would think that there are enough of us here who are fed up with Luke and what he can do to our exchange if he is allowed continued existence. In my opinion, we need to wipe the scourge of Luke from SL as a matter of survival of our existence. We need to do it. LL won’t or can’t since WSE is not violating anything. If we don't, I am afraid that his shenanigans will draw the SEC into the picture and force LL to ban us all, including any private trading, and we all collectively lose one "he*l of a lot of money, because you know that LL will not refund 1 Linden! DISCLAIMER (To protect SLCAPEX and others): The above comments are not condoned, solicited or acceptable by SLCAPEX, its employees, owners, companies, etc. The statement made is by Arnaud Villota only and is only made as a comment on a current situation. If WSE wishes to Ban, eject, or burn in eternal hell fire, etc. then they may only do such actions against the avatar known as Arnaud Villota ONLY according to the SL TOS. SLCAPEX has NO CONTROL over Arnaud Villota! Do you think Luke would accept this? lol! Yesterday, 17:02 Bogart Beck Re: Latest Victim of WSE Con Machine Edited by author Yesterday, 17:03 Nice DISCLAIMER Arnaud. We WILL control you - give us time. Here's a nice glass of Kool-Aid while you wait ;-) Yesterday, 17:05 Arnaud Villota Re: Latest Victim of WSE Con Machine I prefer Merlot. Thanks anyway! Yesterday, 18:08 Arnaud Villota Re: Latest Victim of WSE Con Machine Actually I have put my money (100L) where my mouth is. I have formed a group called "BanLukeAndWSE". It is an open group. If your are interested in the 24/7 vigil that I talked about earlier, then please join. It is free. Also, if someone(s) would like to volunteer to set up the times and places for the vigil, please let me know and I will make you an officer(s) of the group, I am organizationally impaired, and would probably blow away any chance we had at organizing anything! Thanks. In my opinion we have to do this ourselves, we cannot rely on LL to do this for us. Thanks Bo for the offer of the Koolaid and the forum, once again this is no reflection on SLCAPEX. If you wish me to discontinue these posts, just let me know. Yesterday, 18:22 Bogart Beck Re: Latest Victim of WSE Con Machine Arnaud, feel free - I'll step in and moderate if it gets too heated. Merlot eh? We have something else in common. Bo Yesterday, 19:44 Delicious Demar Re: Latest Victim of WSE Con Machine Hi all - some great points on here... I think we are all of a like mind regarding the WSE and the shenanigans that Luke Connell is perpetrating on the unwary investors of WSE. Most of what I would have to say on the issue has already been said by Ivan - i find myself in complete agreement with what he has said here and on other forums. My account has been locked as well - because I have spoken out against the WSE in the last two weeks, in anticipation of the re-opening of the exchange. I had 234,000L+ in cash and a healthy portfolio of investments worth more than that in my account when the WSE went down in January. Like Ivan, I will not be bullied any longer. When my company was listed on the WSE, I had to hold my tongue, because I had my investors to consider. Even now, the cash and holdings in WSE were actually held in the name of DDE investors - so the loss is their loss, as well as mine, and knowing that my assets would be stolen if I spoke up, I spent a long time sitting on the fence and minding my tongue. idk about you all, but I cannot afford to throw away $3,000 USD. But with the prospect of a new round of thievery and the rebirth of the megalomaniacal dictatorship that WSE has become, I could no longer sit on the fence, and I have decided to use whatever small caché I might have in SL financial circles to make my opinions known. I have blogged and posted on a half dozed forums already to get the word out that the WSE is not to be trusted and that Luke is without ethics or honour - but as Ivan points out - Luke's latest ponzi scheme seems to have caught the attention of at least some investors. I am a mild mannered person - a pacifist and a conciliator. I do not seek or enjoy conflict and drama. But there comes a point at which my sense of what is right can be offended to the degree that I will take action. Anyone who has watched the progress of DDE over the last 18 months knows - I approach things methodically and without fanfare, with careful planning and research. I do not make bold claims, or outlandish statements. I carefully weight my options and when i am ready, I take decisive action. As far as WSE is concerned, I am still weighing options and doing research... Someone asked me today why I am so angry about my account's being locked - after all, i knew that if I spoke out against the WSE, it would happen. This is true - I knew full well that my account would be locked - I have had many dealings with Luke Connell over the last 18 months, and it was totally predictable. I can tell you why. Because it is WRONG. Everything else is secondary to me. The loss of assets, the legalities, the explanations, the convoluted webs of terms of service and rules and regulations - these are all secondary. If I can somehow bundle these into a package that has some real leverage, so much the better - but the point is NOT for me to get my money back. The point is to get EVERYONE'S money back. The point is to stop these kinds of thefts from occurring in the future. The point is to educate people as to just what they are getting involved in. Okay - this has become a full-on rant... lol (thanks a lot Bo!) I will stop before I get (even more) carried away. But stay tuned - I suspect that this particular little drama is a far cry from being over... dd Yesterday, 23:02 SynCere Talon Re: Latest Victim of WSE Con Machine Edited by author Yesterday, 23:05 I am not so sure the stance on the orientation or help islands will help. Majority of those people are not even here for that part of SL. But I do like the group idea and perhaps holding educational events with announcements, forums and such would be a good idea. This way you are getting the information out into the main stream. Anyway we could set up adboards, or some type of media stir that would not directly violate SL TOS? Perhaps even a webite or blog. There are a number of ways to get the information out there. Problem is you need to make sure you are aiming at the right audience, and getting the best coverage. If money to help fund this is a problem, you could take donations, service contributions, group fees, ect.. Just my 2L... Edit. You could even have speakers at these events, like burned WSE investors, give out phamplets with the statistics and pertenant info Ivan collects. Get Luke where it really hurts. In the investors pockets. Today, 00:07 casper Trebuchet Re: Latest Victim of WSE Con Machine If you want to hurt Luke than not over SL actions. WSE still might have 25000 accounts (how many of them will he sack because of TOS violation or simply because he considers that users are no longer online) which he inherited from the Ginko disaster. You can sue Luke of course but international legal processes are long and the outcome very unpredictable. Especially in a case we have here as courts in general are not yet very used in such cyber criminality. It is not easy wanting to become a pioneer in such matters. It costs a lot of money and in the end only your attorney will smile. Also, I wonder whether it makes sense to take legal steps against Luke. There is probably very little to get from him. More interesting and logical would be to go directly against LL as they are tolerating his activities. Such a procedure has probably more success and is more efficient, sorry to say. However, the consequences will be more than clear. LL will freeze your account as long as the procedure is open etc. It will be David vs Goliath. There is also a fear that then all stock exchanges would be prohibited…Or the land barons involved in this process see their land vanish. Are you ready for that? His hope, however, is his killer app on Facebook. May be he don’t know but he is entering a very dangerous field there. People not connected to SL will probably invest RL money into his products. You don’t have to think far to understand that if he continues to apply his business behavior as he did till now, he will run into serious problems. If someone invest 10’000 $L that is one thing, if it’s 10’000 $ another. What about taxes to pay on such investments, what happens if there is tax fraud of one of the investors in RL and an investigation starts, can the systems be used for money laundery, what happens if one of the investors gets bankrupt in RL and has an important portfolio of shares at WSE …just some thoughts. A lot of questions and they all might have serious RL consequences ...It is too easy to be naïve and innocent but as RL is involved we have to develop some precautions. No, I think opposition should start in facebook as it is more linked to RL. Unfortunately, I’m not at all an expert in Facebook I have to say, and don’t oversee the features to avoid that newcomers get scammed. I don’t have an answer yet. If someone has I’m eager to learn. Today, 01:47 Ironfist Hutchinson Re: Latest Victim of WSE Con Machine Edited by author Today, 02:05 Is their perhaps not a different angle to aproach this problem ? How about through certain consumer organisations ? I am not too familiar with the innerworkings of such entities but it seems that Luke is running some form of ebusiness that sells people products under false pretences or at least changes the conditions of sales after the customer has paid for the product. Casper makes a very strong argument about taking such actions as Arnaud suggests and is planning to execute, LL might not react favorably to groups with banners and signs that display very negative warnings on fraud to newcomers as the first thing they get to learn about SL when they enter. Not trying to deminish your efforts Arnaud, but would another slegdehammer from LL on the exchanges this time not actually play right into Luke's advantage ? Instead of having to deal with his pesky investors one by one to find a reason to confiscate their money (which he probably already has vented out of SL) LL would do it for him in one blow, and he does not seem to be the kind of person that would loose a nights sleep over the victims this would make on the other exchanges also. Hutch (Edit) sells Products should be offer services in this case. Today, 04:43 SynCere Talon Re: Latest Victim of WSE Con Machine I am not saying we run a smear campaign. What I am saying is why can't we have things available to help the furure and present investors become better informed. Kind of like a sneak attack on Lukes banter. Give these people the tools to find the information needed to make informed decisions about his and everyone elses exchanges. Maybe vstex and slcapex could work together on this. United we stand. What about the sl media getting involved or do they follow the money? Has the Wallstreet Journal ever written a story about the sl virtual exchanges? We need to think in broader terms if we want to connect with the rl and sl investor market. |
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| Aug 7th 2008, 20:43 Bogart Beck |
Re: OP/Ed and Commentary re; WSE - World Stock Exchange | |
Today, 04:53 Arnaud Villota Re: Latest Victim of WSE Con Machine Good points. My group idea was aimed specifically at WSE, not even to Luke personally since that would be a violation of the LL TOS. My thinking was that such a "protest" would not effect the mainstream exchanges, however your point about possible spill over is valid. Casper may be right, that the best way to attack is through Facebook. However, like Casper, I have no experience there. Possibly buying a banner ad on facebook might be a way to do it. If we have the banner ad link to a "generic index" page, that lists all of the stories and reports about WSE, then that might be a way of getting the word out to the most vunerable people, as Syncere and Delicious pointed out. The Ad idea might work in SLReports as well if SLReports would be willing to accept such a hot potato. Something to think about I guess. Today, 04:56 Arnaud Villota Re: Latest Victim of WSE Con Machine In hindsight the group name I created earlier is inappropriate to what we are trying to accomplish. So in light of that I dropped the BanLukeandWSE group since that may violate LL TOS. The new group name is WSEInfo. The purpose of the group is to pass on information about WSE to all group members. For example a good announcement would be what Ivan has passed on in this forum. Also Delicious would have another place to pass on her story. Former WSE companies can use it as well to tell their stories. Hopefully we can get the word out about this group to existing and potential new investors in SL. As long as we keep it civil and within the group, Luke won't have a case of slander against the group or group members, at least not one that LL will listen too in my opinion. Since WSE is not branded, copyrighted, or trademarked to my knowledge, I see no problem using WSEInfo as a group name. Does anyone else see a problem with that? My thinking would be that the person who wants to contribute a story to the gorup would write it up on a notecard and then send out a general announcement and attach the notecard. That way we could collect stories as they come up. Just a thought. Today, 06:39 Ivan Halfpint Re: Latest Victim of WSE Con Machine Sounds good some great ideas. Im going to start work on a website where we can add stories about hardships with the WSE. Also it will contain information about what each individual can do regarding being defrauded by WSE. In terms of facebook im going to forward the information collected to the operators so that they know exactly who is running an application on their system. Im going to let them know that the WSE is taking in real USD and defrauding individuals. I'm interested in seeing facebooks response to that. Right now WSE is in the midst of trying to raise another $40,000 USD. Hopefully not too many new rsidents will be pulled in by this scam. Many great idea lets keep this rolling. By taking down this ponzi operation it will do nothing but strengthen the honest financial community in SL. Cheers Ivan Today, 07:04 Kaffe McMahon Re: Latest Victim of WSE Con Machine I would offer a suggestion Ivan that you write an email to the newspapers and most read blogs in SL and ask them to write an expose. I have some contacts that might be of use for you. My email is in my profile so please drop me a note when you can. Today, 07:40 Ironfist Hutchinson Re: Latest Victim of WSE Con Machine It appears that Sophia Yates had quiet a success with her Youtube presentation that she used as a medium to vent her opinion about certain facts she had about a well known company :) It seems that a similair action against WSE would be most effective on the short term. People just love to watch those short SL flicks. Hutch Today, 08:55 Huff Huldschinsky Re: Latest Victim of WSE Con Machine Is refreshing to see how a serious topic such as an alleged scam gets the proper attention that is deserved. From an emotionally charged tread it went to a forum where people put ideas together on finding ways to dinamically eliminate the root cause of the problem...I see that now people in this forum are sensitive to what the problem is and how to better resolve it. we're weighting the consequences of our acts and finding ways to gather information that can be compiled into something that can be used to prove to LL, the financial comunity and the newcomers that in fact the alegations against WSE and Luke are true. On a personal level, I'm really looking forward to see what "air-tight" proof we will get from our efforts...not for what will happen to "Luke" or WSE... but because it will help us to fine tune our radar and identify other individuals or entities like them and enable us to confidently engage LL in a fact based manner. Let's keep it up... Huff Today, 11:48 Dimitri Gasser Re: Latest Victim of WSE Con Machine It would be tempting to create a box you can hide your avatar in, as seen with prim avas / furrys / etc. make a wearable item that will hide the avatar completely, on the item, make a big sign / texture it so that you get your message out, use floattext to say "click me for info, dont get scammed" or somesuch, and use a give item script to give notecards to those who click .... then you can use sleek or another low resorce bot operator to keep them logged in on help island 24 / 7 getting a little more fancy, you could replace the script with one that would deliver the items from a central server. you can keep the server continuously updated and have all bots giving the same info. Im willing to bet if rather than a straight out scam warning, which may be seen as a personal attack, you made a few notecards such as, " places to see in sl " " good freebie spots " threw in a box full of high quality freebies to get people going, etc etc, and included the warnings in a " dont fall for these scams " card, listing the WSE at the top, and then some short blurbs about the pyramid boxes, copybot theft, etc other scams .... LL wouldnt even give you shit, you would be a " HELPFUL CONTRIBUTING RESIDENT " giving back to the sl community by helping noobs gt on their feet .... that just happens to have a warning in it. as for the bot thing, tis why i said hide the av in a wearable prim, so its not outright ugly. some people may AR you, but LL has already approved the use of bots for things like this, info collecting, store models, etc ... your in the clear. (ive been using bots for the past 2 years and had personal talks with lindens, there all good) Create the distribution network of boxed in bots, and a central server ... you could even go so far as looking for sponsors, have one notecard, landmark, and texture / object in the server, that changes daily, with the sponsors shit on it. Alot of people would value that kind of consumer reach and dearly pay for it Today, 12:20 Ivan Halfpint Re: Latest Victim of WSE Con Machine One of the things I worry about is actually mentioning the WSE in newbie spots will make them aware that WSE exists. Hopefully this would not backfire and make newbs check out WSE. One of the things I would like do is go right into the belly of the dragon - WSE HQ - maybe have some people warning new comers trying to use the ATM. Of course if Luke or any staff were there the avatar would be given a boot out of the sim - but im sure there are many times when the WSE is not going to be manned since I doubt business will be that great after the scams he has pulled off. Also warning members of the facebook group is also a good start as well. Some very good ideas are coming from this discussion - finally a topic where we are all on the same page :) Today, 12:45 iVentures Volitant Re: Latest Victim of WSE Con Machine I will consider including a disclosure in my website (once launched) forewarning investors about WSE history. Not sure how much of a help that would be, but it’s something. iV Today, 13:14 Sophia Yates Re: Latest Victim of WSE Con Machine Edited by author Today, 13:23 Hello Hutch. Yes I think the little clips were effective in getting the word out. Funny you should mention the WSE possible video lol already done that been there yesterday he I was cooking on the Barbi-Q lol and filming. I know Luke. I was actually one of his little AV friends but soon caught on. I always gave him the benifit of the dought but from all I have seen and it originated for me anyway from his rantings and mistreating of others that it was over for me. I just stayed so close after the AVIX scam. I saw that one coming. Before it opened we questioned it and some on here know we did. I did my own thing but watched the exchanges and other things. Im tired of it all to its wrong and I remember when DDE got listed on WSE she was one of the well most trusted one on the exchange at the time and for her to be taken too is just outright major wrong. I have nothing to loose now with him. I could tell u a few stories but I think your all pretty aware of it all so I wont go there but yup here we go again and didnt we expect this from him once it opened. Oh while I was there the sim was empty also for a time then 2 people showed up. Poor suckers. But whats funny is a hipo av and a small girl showed up like tourist hehe i got them in the video. Cute. If anyone wants to send me a note card in world as far as to an appropriate statement to play with the video please do. It can either be something to write on the video or if someone wants me to do a speach write it up and i'll read it in the film. Seems like he is creating his little museums of virtue lol. He is a bit dilusional...wants to be on top of the world. not thats thats a bad thing hehe but I know from talking to him on skype he really has it set in his mind he is going to be like Bill Gates or im sure you have seen all his images. Any way I 2 was ejected from his helicopter lol one fine day. And he said something along with it when he did it. It was pretty funny. I think at that time it was just a joke because I really wasnt against anyone then as far as knowing what they were really up to. But he did one time (and on other occassions lol ) to talk to me when there was going to be this hostile takeover long story. But he hide behind my house and spilled out like a parnoid kid. I even said do u need a lawyer lol. hmm sure he needs one now or has one. I think or I know he likes to chat outload to be heard or wants it to be recorded. That I have figured out over time with him and others. I just humored him. Im tired of it to. Ive roasted virtual hot doags over a virtual open flame with him and listned to his cowboy hmm music. Isnt he an aussie lol anyway... Im sure he will be really well I wont use the word at me when I do this but..then again I dont care anymore he hurt allot of people I know and others I thought were decent people so no this is to protect the future residents of SL I guess. Ok is there somewhere I can hide after this one lol. Just send me your cards so I can read what ever it is u want me to say on the film. Sophia PS where did MNM's sites go? HMMMMMM R they under construction or something or gone? why wont they just explain that to ease our minds. Oh they only had 304 prims i think the last time i looked. Maybe thats why the shops r not rented. They cant aford to. Some of the furniture was also gone to. Oh well..... |
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| Aug 7th 2008, 20:45 Bogart Beck |
Re: OP/Ed and Commentary re; WSE - World Stock Exchange | |
Today, 16:07 Wenden Xeno Re: Latest Victim of WSE Con Machine Hey Sophia- I just saw a few of your YouTube videos and they are excellent. Cant wait to see your new WSE video. Looking at the one you made a year ago- it struck me how its really busy with a bustling trading floor- and its amazing how Luke managed to perform so badly as a manager to go from that period of strength to what we have now. His latest outrage, however, really is true criminality. Today, 16:42 Arnaud Villota Re: Latest Victim of WSE Con Machine Edited by author Today, 16:46 To the community: I have created a group called WSEInfo which is free to join. All members of the group have "Send Group Notice " rights. If you are interested in this venue to centralize all in-world posts of WSE stories, then please join within the next day or so. If no other people join the gorup, LL will automatically delete it in about 40 hours now. If Ivan can create the web site for all stories, and links to other blogs with their stories, I am willing to foot the bill for adverts on Facebook, SL Reports, and possibly Y2P for a banner ad that would link to Ivan's page, for a couple of weeks. (If the market was doing better I would foot the bill for a much longer time. :) ) It would be great if others could step up and sponsor the ad for another week or so after my time expires. iVentures, if you could link to Ivan's page and also inform people about the WSEInfo group(assuming the community wants to go that way) on your soon to be published web page, that would be great, imo! Dimitri, I love the idea about the bot "notecard" giver. That has promise. However, I think we would still have to check with LL about the sponsorship idea, if they allowed that then I would think we would see more ads on Help/Orientation island. I'd kill to advertise my shops there, but I haven't found a way to do that. However I will check it out. If you could send more info I would appreciate it. (See e-mail address below). Sophie I like your ideas of relating the stories on uTube! Can you leverage the WSEInfo group (if we go that route) where we could possibly centralize all of the stories? These are just ideas. If the community doesn't want to go with the WSEInfo thing I set up, that is fine. I will just let it go. I agree with Hutch, I think a lot of good ideas have come out of this forum, but I think we have to organize them into a "focal point" so that they can take on a life of their own and have power. What that focal point is, is up to everybody in the community. I will "go with the flow" so to speak. If you wish to communicate via e-mail, my address is arnaud@msgc.biz. Today, 18:25 Sophia Yates Re: Latest Victim of WSE Con Machine Edited by author Today, 18:53 Dear Arnaud, It is with great risk to me but Im in. Ive already posted enough on the issue on my site so it wont come to anyones surprise that I bring it to the forefront once again. Im tired of the schemes and they play out so well in sl. So if you wish to send me text to print on the videos or some kind of speech I will narate the video appropriatly to and it will not be in the voice as the others. I can only listen to them for so long lol myself but they got accross the point. I do have a regular speaking voice and I could do it as a bulliton type way or a nice soft convincing "better listen up or else your screwed" way. I have had allot of people that IM on youtube inquireing on how to get into SL and so on so I would say it would be an effective way to warn people. I just really need help with the words on this one and to choose them wisely. Its very sad that the very company we support here doesnt want to get involved. SL / LL is well known and for this scams allowed to continue is not only a shame but they have allot to loose. What RL companies want to be associated with them and u know which ones im talking about not to mention the questions asked of the CEO a few months back. Hows does it look if it is to continue. Not good at all and not to say exchanges should not be allowed and I do know there r companies that r on the up & up that r promoting thier trading software and or services so you dont want to hurt them but there r people who r just taking it to a whole other dimension ...ok I wont ramble on. Send me what you can and I will work on a peice to warn others on youtube it does seem to be effective Sophia PS : Looking at the clips now it really looks like mouse maze of information to trap people into another well Id like to say a well though out scheme but more of the same Get rich quick schem lol.. The Facebook connection with the WIC $$ boy and LL doesnt find this disturbing? Did I mention that there is now a Masonic Lodge there to? Oh its to much. Today, 19:59 Ivan Halfpint Re: Latest Victim of WSE Con Machine I started the website and hopefully it will be set within a week. Nothing fancy but a good informational point and a great source to read about ALL the people the WSE has wronged. |
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| Aug 8th 2008, 05:35 Arnaud Villota |
Re: OP/Ed and Commentary re; WSE - World Stock Exchange | |
| Ivan, ok, I will look into getting an ad set up on SL Reports and Facebook. I am thinking of something inncoent like "If you are planning to invest in Virtual Markets, Click here first" or something like that, I guess it depends on how Luke is marketing WSE on Facebook, then it would link over to your page. Let me know urls when you are ready. Sophia, actually I was suggesting a central place for the stories that you were requesting. I was suggesting the group I created, however now that Bo has provided this forum specifically for stories not just on the WSE exchange, but all exchanges, this is probably the best place to start collecting. I can take a stab at a script for you based on the stories that come in, but I think there are others out there more qualified. Let's see if anyone volunteers. |
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| Aug 8th 2008, 06:19 Sophia Yates |
Re: OP/Ed and Commentary re; WSE - World Stock Exchange | |
| Thats fine Arnaud. I'll just keep up with the news. I actually was thinking of something myself to and it would basically be an innocent notice to the public buyer beware. Not slamming him but a warning to the public. I think you know what I mean. But still any words will help. Sophia |
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| Aug 8th 2008, 09:47 Scott Nestler |
Re: OP/Ed and Commentary re; WSE - World Stock Exchange | |
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| Aug 8th 2008, 10:20 Ashleigh Wade |
Re: OP/Ed and Commentary re; WSE - World Stock Exchange | |
| Just for the record - my account has also been frozen/siezed/stolen, although we expected that when we delisted FED from WSE. Luckily I had slowly sold off my portfolio there (I was always scared that he was going to seize it), but I still lost 10s of thousands of Lindens. |
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| Aug 8th 2008, 16:33 Ironfist Hutchinson |
Re: OP/Ed and Commentary re; WSE - World Stock Exchange
Edited by author Aug 8th 2008, 16:34 |
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| Sophia, I dont think you have to slam or specifically fingerpoint at all. It could be done as a virtual tourguide doing a promo on the SL stockmarkets. Scene 1 : short introduction of the SL stockmarket gameplay. Scene 2 : A few snapshots of you(or another avatar) with several of the formost exchanges on the background. Scene 3 : A word of advise --> directing the attention of the player toward the LL TOS and make them aware that an exchange also has it's own TOS they should read carefully before they start to play. Scene 4 : Directing them to certain websites or other sources of information in case they have questions or doubts (Like Ivan's site or Arnaud's group) etc etc Scene 5 : wishing them success and a lot of fun playing the game, throwing them a ultrafresh smile :) IMHO this would turn the negative in to a possitive and there would be no need for direct slander, it could even attrackt a new crowd of players to the game. Just a thought Hutch |
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