http://slcapex.com/forums/topic/general/1174 In forum General Investment Discussion en-us Tue, 16 Mar 2010 17:44:14 -0600 Tue, 16 Mar 2010 17:44:14 -0600 http://slcapex.com/forums/ Kudang SQL2RSS admin@slcapex.com webmaster@slcapex.com 60 http://slcapex.com/forums/topic/general/1174
iVentures Volitant
www.sliventures.com

in topic Longterm VS Daytrading ---- think twice.... by iVentures Volitant ]]> Thu, 27 Dec 2007 23:31:35 -0700 http://slcapex.com/forums/topic/general/1174/6906 http://slcapex.com/forums/topic/general/1174
After reading this post through I know which "bracket" I fit in to as far as a trader/investor lable goes.
I have spoken with Cash in world and a few others prior to taking up a large investment in a new company.Although I still continue to learn more each day reading the forums.

The IPO was very well written and informative, it had good goals and KPIs to keep the project in check. Future fund requirements had been forcast and at this point all is sailing to plan. I have chatted to the Builders, the Scripters and the PR/Storyline team, all of which have impressed me with both their displayed previous projects and the manner in which they "carry" themselves in. All of this helps to bolster my belief that Im on a winner here.

Although I had purchased a packet of shares in IPO I have been able to pick up the rest at equal to or below the IPO price. I thank the day traders for that:-). Some times I will buy a few shares above the initial 1L$ asking as I have made a saving on the cheaper purchases and hey! its a good project.

Yes Im new to Shares and trading and some CEO's will have seen me pop into their companys books and vanish again as I aim to make between a 10-20L spread in those smaller ventures.

But Its all fun and helps the SL world keep turning.

in topic Longterm VS Daytrading ---- think twice.... by Gumby Roffo ]]> Thu, 27 Dec 2007 22:58:40 -0700 http://slcapex.com/forums/topic/general/1174/6900 http://slcapex.com/forums/topic/general/1174
1 Lack of experience.

2 Change of position.

Regards,
Cash



in topic Longterm VS Daytrading ---- think twice.... by Cash Yiyuan ]]> Thu, 27 Dec 2007 22:27:29 -0700 http://slcapex.com/forums/topic/general/1174/6898 http://slcapex.com/forums/topic/general/1174
I feel like it'd be a good time for me to pipe in on this since the company I now running has come up in the conversation.

First, Cash I'm unsure what you were driving at with using LCA as an example. I don't, for one second, think that this has anything to do with daytrading. I would very much like a concise statement from you to ponder though. So, please post back, I'm sure given the current situation, I'll be here for quite awhile, lol.

Second, I agree with spigot Spyker, this has no bearing on the value of LCA, unless you seek to get out of the company today. If anyone is so inclined to do that, I seek you a buyer.

Lastly, SLCapEx, in my opinion, has no part at all in this event. If I had my way there would be no trigger at all. That's been my position from day one, check the threads. They are some times not what I'd like in an exchange, but having gotten use to the nit picky items I dislike, they are by far and away the most solid choice in all of SL economics. They are also reasonable to deal with, at least from the investor perspective. I can't comment on the listed company view, as yet, due to the fact I'm a relative newb to it, lol. What a week!



in topic Longterm VS Daytrading ---- think twice.... by Sully Okelly ]]> Thu, 27 Dec 2007 15:51:31 -0700 http://slcapex.com/forums/topic/general/1174/6888 http://slcapex.com/forums/topic/general/1174
in topic Longterm VS Daytrading ---- think twice.... by Cash Yiyuan ]]> Thu, 27 Dec 2007 15:06:42 -0700 http://slcapex.com/forums/topic/general/1174/6885 http://slcapex.com/forums/topic/general/1174 any difference to the true value of the stock, as long
as every one sticks to their guns on sell price.

Regards
Spigot Spyker

in topic Longterm VS Daytrading ---- think twice.... by Spigot Spyker ]]> Thu, 27 Dec 2007 15:04:41 -0700 http://slcapex.com/forums/topic/general/1174/6884 http://slcapex.com/forums/topic/general/1174
I am surprised that the auto halt took so long to kick in. It should have stopped trading around .68 or so I think. Looks like a little more fine tuning is required, especially if this was done in one transaction, the software shouldn't even allow one to be able to confirm a sell bid that would drop the price below the floor.

Bottom line, this does look more like a destructive act, or sheer stupidity. Maybe folks need a refresher in limit buys and sells, or maybe the Sell option should be taken off the Market Buy/Sell, so that you only have the option of Market Buys. If I remember right, you cannot sell at Market on WSE, only buy. At least that's how it was back in May or June.


in topic Longterm VS Daytrading ---- think twice.... by Arnaud Villota ]]> Thu, 27 Dec 2007 15:03:20 -0700 http://slcapex.com/forums/topic/general/1174/6883 http://slcapex.com/forums/topic/general/1174
But to back up a bit, a true trader would have bid bid bid.

in topic Longterm VS Daytrading ---- think twice.... by Cash Yiyuan ]]> Thu, 27 Dec 2007 14:49:51 -0700 http://slcapex.com/forums/topic/general/1174/6881 http://slcapex.com/forums/topic/general/1174 Why would a daytrader dump enough shares at market to make up this much of a drop?
Would it be to make a point?
It seems to me that that would be an attempt at being
purely destructive.

Regards
Spigot Spyker

in topic Longterm VS Daytrading ---- think twice.... by Spigot Spyker ]]> Thu, 27 Dec 2007 14:43:31 -0700 http://slcapex.com/forums/topic/general/1174/6880 http://slcapex.com/forums/topic/general/1174
in topic Longterm VS Daytrading ---- think twice.... by Cash Yiyuan ]]> Thu, 27 Dec 2007 14:37:54 -0700 http://slcapex.com/forums/topic/general/1174/6879 http://slcapex.com/forums/topic/general/1174
It is very possible for a day trader and some long in a position to both make linden with out a loser.

All that you need is a dividend :)

in topic Longterm VS Daytrading ---- think twice.... by Sully Okelly ]]> Thu, 27 Dec 2007 05:21:48 -0700 http://slcapex.com/forums/topic/general/1174/6872 http://slcapex.com/forums/topic/general/1174 Thanks for the post, I am not posting this information because I am against trading. The reason behind the post is for investor education, which is part of my role here at SL Capital Exchange.

Regards,
Cash Yiyuan
VP Investor Relations
SL Capital Exchange


in topic Longterm VS Daytrading ---- think twice.... by Cash Yiyuan ]]> Thu, 27 Dec 2007 05:10:15 -0700 http://slcapex.com/forums/topic/general/1174/6871 http://slcapex.com/forums/topic/general/1174 When you go to move out of a position a year from now, or when ever it is, you'll be glad someone is there to trade with you. I agree with you it is painful to watch an investment take a downfall becuase of the day or short term trader, but if you pick sound companies, you'll do just fine.



in topic Longterm VS Daytrading ---- think twice.... by Neophyte Republic ]]> Thu, 27 Dec 2007 01:14:44 -0700 http://slcapex.com/forums/topic/general/1174/6869 http://slcapex.com/forums/topic/general/1174
Some general information on Trading and Investing:

“Trading" and "Investing, in reality, are two very different activities. While both traders and investors participate in the same marketplace, they perform two very different tasks using very different strategies. Both of these parties are necessary.

What Is an Investor?
An investor is the market participant that the general public most often associates with the stock market. Investors are those who purchase shares of a company for the long term with the belief that the company has strong future prospects. Investors typically concern themselves with two things:
• Value - Investors must consider whether a company's shares represent a good value.
• Success - Investors must measure the company's future success by looking at their financial strength and evaluating their future earnings.
Both of these factors can be determined through the analysis of the company's financial statements along with a look at industry trends that may define future growth prospects.

Who Are the Major Investors?
There are many different investors that are active in the marketplace. In fact, the vast majority of the money that is at work in the markets belongs to investors (not to be confused with the amount of dollars traded per day, which is a record held by the traders).

Major investors include:
• Investment Banks / Firms - Investment banks are the organizations that assist companies in going public and raising money. This often involves holding at least a portion of their securities over the long term.
• Mutual Funds - Many individuals keep their money in mutual funds, which make long-term investments in companies that meet their specific criteria. Mutual funds are required by law to act as investors, not traders.
• Institutional Investors - These are large organizations or persons that hold large stakes in companies. Institutional investors often include company insiders, competitors hedging themselves, and special opportunity investors.
• Retail Investors - Retail investors are individuals that invests in the stock market for their personal accounts. At first, the influence of retail traders may seem small, but as time passes more people are taking control of their portfolios and, as a result, the influence of this group is increasing.


What Is a Trader?
Traders are market participants who purchase shares in a company with a focus on the market itself rather than the company's fundamentals. They do so to take advantage of small price movements that occur as a result of supply and demand. Traders typically concern themselves with:
• Price Patterns - Traders will look at past price history in an attempt to predict future price movements.
• Supply and Demand - Traders keep close watch on their trades to see where money is moving and why.
• Market Emotion - Traders play on the fears of investors, where they will bet against the crowd after a large move takes place.
• Client Services - Market makers (one of the largest types of traders) are actually hired by their clients to provide liquidity through rapid trading.
Ultimately, it is traders that provide the liquidity for investors and always take the other end of their trades. Whether it is through market making or fading, traders are a necessary part of the marketplace.


Regards,
Cash

in topic Longterm VS Daytrading ---- think twice.... by Cash Yiyuan ]]> Sat, 22 Dec 2007 15:53:00 -0700 http://slcapex.com/forums/topic/general/1174/6749 http://slcapex.com/forums/topic/general/1174 There allways will be the need for victims, is it not

:(

in topic Longterm VS Daytrading ---- think twice.... by Isegrim Nikolaidis ]]> Sat, 22 Dec 2007 02:38:18 -0700 http://slcapex.com/forums/topic/general/1174/6742 http://slcapex.com/forums/topic/general/1174
in topic Longterm VS Daytrading ---- think twice.... by Isegrim Nikolaidis ]]> Sat, 22 Dec 2007 02:13:46 -0700 http://slcapex.com/forums/topic/general/1174/6741 http://slcapex.com/forums/topic/general/1174
The reason for the much maligned practice of day trading owes much to a lack of confidence on the part of investors.

I am unable to recall the source but I believe I read recently that Mr Vandeverre of the WSE estimated that between 10 & 20% of IPO were proving to be fraudulent or otherwise dead investments. That in itself is a quite staggering admission which from personal observation seems reasonably accurate.

Accordingly I have a very short list of companies which I feel comfortable making a long term investment in and a very much longer list of those to be bought and sold without regard to building a stake.

I understand that this is not to the liking of many CEOs (anyone recall a certain Mr B referring to day traders as parasites?) but they really do need to look to their own laurels before condemning others.

Investors are seeking a return on investment and if CEOs are unable or unwilling to pay a regular dividend then it leaves only capital gains. Until the stock is sold, any gains are purely hypothetical - hence we have short term trading as the norm.

There are many, many companies who seem to arrogantly consider shareholders to be at best a neccessary evil. During the IPO stage they are happy to communicate freely but as soon as the stock reaches the trading floor the investors are no longer of any use and are widely ignored.

Of course this is a generalisation. For an example of how to attract long term, happy and confident investors take a look at the operations of DDE at the WSE, the Lemur or L&L groups. They have in common a willingness to keep shareholders informed, pay regular dividends and inspire a belief that they are here for the long haul. Each of those mentioned have recently completed succesfull secondary offerings.

Hopefully natural selection will remove the poorly run companies and the new business model will begin to look more like those above.

in topic Longterm VS Daytrading ---- think twice.... by Aeneas Whitfield ]]> Fri, 21 Dec 2007 23:26:47 -0700 http://slcapex.com/forums/topic/general/1174/6738 http://slcapex.com/forums/topic/general/1174
I think you are neither silly nor a fool Sully, a fanatic perhaps but that is not against any of the rules(LOL)

I agree with you on the endless CREATIVE possibilities SL holds, it is just that the companies are more and more often stepping beyond the borders of the SL game environment and are developing businessplans that come darn close to being a RL endeavour. A lot of people have build their company up to a level that it is growing beyond the current possibilities that SL offers from a LEGAL standpoint and have hit a ceiling. I believe that most have only reached 15% of their true potential yet because of this and with a beter legal platform for SL businesses to operate from some of the companies here will flourish beyond comprehension if given the right soil to grow on.

I am truely curious as to how this will evolve in the future.

in topic Longterm VS Daytrading ---- think twice.... by Isegrim Nikolaidis ]]> Fri, 21 Dec 2007 21:40:52 -0700 http://slcapex.com/forums/topic/general/1174/6735 http://slcapex.com/forums/topic/general/1174
It is just a game that is quite true, but so is chess. And I can tell you, if we were to play chess with each other, I personally, would play 500 games, if that's what it took, to beat you just once :)

I'm competative by nature, many of us are. maybe you are too and you understand where I'm coming from, maybe not.

When I play a game, the more complex the more enjoyment I can receive. Like Monopoly, If I have good competition, it is that much more fun and the game goes longer. Can you relate? Well there are stock exchange simulations out there, but none connected to anything like SL. So, to play this game requires covering a lot of variables and details, right? Good, I say! If I were to build a model ship in a bottle, would it not be possibly as difficult on some level? Certainly, but the rewards are magnificent! The same is true here. Financial statements are not that hard. Once you have a system you follow it. If a business person isn't inclined to enjoy that here, he can hire someone to do it for him. It beats camping, right?

SL is a game. A game that exceeds the imagination of any one person, in complexity. Think for a moment how incredible it has been and is becoming. Just think. Is it fun? I dare say more than any other game I know. I've been in the computer feild for toooo long, measured in decades, lol. This game is beyond my comprehension. My imagination is quite vivid and new scenarios enter my mind every day. I call that stimulation. But I can't scratch the scratch on the scratch with regard to the possibilities.

I invest here for two basic reasons, one I love numbers and two I get to gauge, with information, the things that I can conceive of being possible in this virtual reality, then watch the results. So, don't put forth to me a fantastic concept and plan and then undermine it for both of us by being lazy. Failure needn't be an option here, provided we exercise some common sense. Good Financial Statements are common sense for any company. Aren't they?

Am I a silly old fool? Maybe, but if you want to take the lazy road, I won't see you on it. But, if you want to beat me and win the game, make wise moves. Merry Christmas :)

in topic Longterm VS Daytrading ---- think twice.... by Sully Okelly ]]> Thu, 20 Dec 2007 22:30:49 -0700 http://slcapex.com/forums/topic/general/1174/6718 http://slcapex.com/forums/topic/general/1174
Thanks

in topic Longterm VS Daytrading ---- think twice.... by Arnaud Villota ]]> Thu, 20 Dec 2007 21:00:51 -0700 http://slcapex.com/forums/topic/general/1174/6716 http://slcapex.com/forums/topic/general/1174
Have fun :)


in topic Longterm VS Daytrading ---- think twice.... by Isegrim Nikolaidis ]]> Thu, 20 Dec 2007 19:59:08 -0700 http://slcapex.com/forums/topic/general/1174/6714 http://slcapex.com/forums/topic/general/1174 More then one CEO has already stated the fact that they are not willing or able to put 24/7 into their SL endeavour unless they are able to get a salary out of it that will pay for RL bills. Also the financial reporting requirements that have become mandatory seem to be beyond the definition of what you would still call a game. Where are the borders of this gameboard ??? How long can the same players trade the same stock among eachother until there is no more spread in the stockprice ??? How much and how long must you trade if the stock has a fixed spread of 0.01L$ to make it profitable dayjob ???

100.000 L$ is not so much, if you go to a casino you spend it easy in a few hours. I my self got a couple of 100K L$ here and there just to see what comes of it. It is a lot of fun to see the Mech Project being build and be part of it for instance and ofcourse I would be happy if it will pay off one of these days but it is all longterm. Daytrading is too much work for too little return in SL for the little guys. Sure there are those whom are going at it with several very exspensive softwarepackages aplying a brute force strategy and will probably get a nice return on it too but in general it is just not worth the toss.

in topic Longterm VS Daytrading ---- think twice.... by Isegrim Nikolaidis ]]> Thu, 20 Dec 2007 19:55:14 -0700 http://slcapex.com/forums/topic/general/1174/6713 http://slcapex.com/forums/topic/general/1174
IF,,,, I were a company owner/CEO on any exchange, I would want my numbers every moment for MYSELF, never mind shareholders and investors. I can't believe someone can run a profitable company without proper precise information! And if they have it, then we should too! We are all owners of the companies we hold shares of! If you don't nowhere you are right now, how the hell can you sort out how to get somewhere else!

Financial consultants should be everywhere in here and new investors should be paying linden to get help! Look at some of the price changes over just a month. Tell me that if you had someone taking care of guiding you it wouldn't be worth paying. Spread the wealth! It's Christmas, lol! If you need help get some, it could cost you big otherwise. I wouldn't entertain doing my own brain surgery to save a buck, would you?

in topic Longterm VS Daytrading ---- think twice.... by Sully Okelly ]]> Wed, 19 Dec 2007 21:14:55 -0700 http://slcapex.com/forums/topic/general/1174/6702 http://slcapex.com/forums/topic/general/1174
The hope is that the first stage will make enough money on its own to finance the rest of the stages without having to sell any more, thus increasing the value of people who already hold it. But, we set those shares aside to sell them, so most likely that is how we will finance future expansions. Currently we have it set to where I can sell small amounts on the market to cover small additions if the board votes on them, and if we want to do a secondary or large share sell off then I would need the boards vote. I doubt it would be as a secondary though, most likely we would simply place the shares we want to sell on the open market and let them sell as the market want them, that way it would not adversely affect the current shareholders to much.

Me and the guys at YEP! have a great idea for tie in that would not only increase revenues, but also greatly increase the people / traffic coming to our sims, so that is something we will be reviewing and possibly selling shares to finance soon. But first we need to complete or get further along in our current phase :)


in topic Longterm VS Daytrading ---- think twice.... by Ima Janitor ]]> Wed, 19 Dec 2007 18:10:57 -0700 http://slcapex.com/forums/topic/general/1174/6700 http://slcapex.com/forums/topic/general/1174
:)

in topic Longterm VS Daytrading ---- think twice.... by Isegrim Nikolaidis ]]> Wed, 19 Dec 2007 17:57:49 -0700 http://slcapex.com/forums/topic/general/1174/6699 http://slcapex.com/forums/topic/general/1174


in topic Longterm VS Daytrading ---- think twice.... by Ima Janitor ]]> Wed, 19 Dec 2007 17:11:54 -0700 http://slcapex.com/forums/topic/general/1174/6697 http://slcapex.com/forums/topic/general/1174
Secondly, I also agree with Sully's point that an interest in a stock, whether good or bad, is really good in the long run. (I aplogize to Sully for stretching that point) I am in this for the long term as well, but remember the long term in SL is about 2 to 3 months, if we are lucky to survive the latest scandal, and that is stretching it! So if I can do a little day trading and make a bit of profit to offset my high risk longer term investments, then so be it. I don't see where I am hurting anyone.

My concern is, and where the education should come in, is the point of what IPO's are supposed to be really for. I think MECH took a hit (to use an example I am intimately familiar with) by people who held out on the IPO and took advantage of the lower prices when MECH finally went to market. Some of those people actually believed that the stock they were buying, AFTER IPO, were actually funding MECH! (I am not talking minor Lindens here, I am talking of 100K lindens plus!!!) They didn't realize that they were only funding other traders, not MECH at that point. The opportunity to fund the MECH dream was over as soon as the IPO went to the trading floor. I think that has happened to a lot of companies here and on other exchanges, because people really don't understand what the process is and what an IPO really represents!

If CAPEX were to do anything to help with this, I think education along the lines of what IPO's are actually about will really help the entrepeneurs among us. I believe a lot of people look at IPO's to make a quick buck and don't really understand what the underlying philosophy is all about. Some basic classes on this topic, sponsored by SLCAPEX, may go a long way for all of us.


in topic Longterm VS Daytrading ---- think twice.... by Arnaud Villota ]]> Wed, 19 Dec 2007 16:14:54 -0700 http://slcapex.com/forums/topic/general/1174/6694 http://slcapex.com/forums/topic/general/1174
Best Regards,
Cash

:D

in topic Longterm VS Daytrading ---- think twice.... by Cash Yiyuan ]]> Wed, 19 Dec 2007 14:04:29 -0700 http://slcapex.com/forums/topic/general/1174/6691 http://slcapex.com/forums/topic/general/1174
There isn't real any day trading here anyway, because the market is always open, so your term weektrading(WT) is likely right on.

The liquidity issue is a no brainer. There isn't any if you don't have us WTs. We move the market, let's not forget that.

I loved the point about how the value is only there if your selling. Unless a dividend is attached the only income you receive will be capital gain on trading. Most companies don't pay any dividend and the ones that do, several excepted, can't brag about their returns :(

Lastly, Wt is good for the company in several ways, not the least of which is the daily free advertizing it receives from exposure to traders. Also it should be pointed out, that the companies listed in here are earning their linden in their field of expertise, not trading their own shares. The ones that do earn linden in the exchange are professionals and are doing the exact same thing you and I are doing :) Buyer beware! lol

Sully

ps. I have decided to give myself a clear conscience for the holidays and to that end, I'd like to apologize to you Cash for my rude "dude" remarks earlier this year. I was distasteful and infantile and I'm truly sorry. I have realized that I was wrong to be sarcastic to you and even if we disagree from time to time I'd like to co-exist with you peacefully :) Please forgive me and have a wonderful Holiday Season.

in topic Longterm VS Daytrading ---- think twice.... by Sully Okelly ]]> Wed, 19 Dec 2007 12:53:21 -0700 http://slcapex.com/forums/topic/general/1174/6689 http://slcapex.com/forums/topic/general/1174
I, for one, do both. Investing AND daytrading (more like weektrading), and for profit. And it pays real fine.

Your point is valid, but mainly from a CEO's point of you. I don't care much knowing that my little investment is now worth 3 times more. It will be worth that only when I cash it out.

Two things come to mind after reading your post:

1. Have you noticed that on the trading page, in large bold letters posted well in sight, is the Market Volume. If everyone BUY and HOLD, then what would volume be useful for? Wasn't Arb's latest press release exactly on that: VOLUME ?

2. On each trade, a 2.5% commission goes into CapEx vault. No daytrading, no volume, no commission, no profit for CapEx.

That said, a few companies are worth investing in. Those see their share price go up even with all the daytrading going around. Daytrading is inherent to stock exchanges, RL or SL. Some CEOs may dislike it, but it's part of the deal of going public. Call it the company's risk.

Yanik

in topic Longterm VS Daytrading ---- think twice.... by Yanik Lytton ]]> Wed, 19 Dec 2007 08:14:38 -0700 http://slcapex.com/forums/topic/general/1174/6682 http://slcapex.com/forums/topic/general/1174
Yes you raise a good point, but learning is actually driving liquidity down, unless longterm investors do snap up the bargains. To add to that a longterm investor who is not educated will look at the price and wonder why her/his investment is not growing.

Remember the point of why companies list on an exchange - to go public, to let investors own a part of that company.
Thats all I am trying to point out in this post.

Take Care,
Cash

in topic Longterm VS Daytrading ---- think twice.... by Cash Yiyuan ]]> Wed, 19 Dec 2007 06:02:23 -0700 http://slcapex.com/forums/topic/general/1174/6675 http://slcapex.com/forums/topic/general/1174
I will speak for myself. I personally enjoy daytrading. Not so much for the profit, but for the action. Some people are legitimately trying to earn long-term income, we that daytrade only help them in the long term. The market needs the liquidity for growth companies. This is part of a game, one you can take very seriously, or not. That said, the daytrading is definately more fun. It also allows us to learn without mortgaging the house, then losing it :)

I know from talking with others that when daytraders drive the price down quick, that is when the longterm traders jump on the band wagon. The exchange gets lots of commissions that will be spent on improvements and dividends. Everyone wins! So, come play with us, you have the linden to lose ;) We'd love to lighten your load!

Merry Christmas All!

in topic Longterm VS Daytrading ---- think twice.... by Sully Okelly ]]> Wed, 19 Dec 2007 05:56:19 -0700 http://slcapex.com/forums/topic/general/1174/6674 http://slcapex.com/forums/topic/general/1174 We need to recongise that daytrading is an artform and not many are successful at it. I urge all investors to look long term, rather than short. After all, would you purchase a business and then sell it after a week, just to make a quick buck - no I would not...nor would many successful business people.

A good option for those who do not wish to spend much time researching and maintaining orders etc, are term deposits and investment certificates.

If you have any questions please contact myself.

Regards,
Cash Yiyuan
SL Capital Exchange

in topic Longterm VS Daytrading ---- think twice.... by Cash Yiyuan ]]> Wed, 19 Dec 2007 05:43:53 -0700 http://slcapex.com/forums/topic/general/1174/6671